Comments on TAO LIN | BLOG: Cho Seung-Hui's killing rampage

i like this post

2011-12-23T21:32:06.193-05:00

i like this post

Hello, Mr. Lin. I liked this essay more than I'...

2009-07-01T20:24:35.743-04:00

Hello, Mr. Lin. I liked this essay more than I've liked a lot of the other things I've read in the last while. I don't understand why you like to write in low caps so often and so for a while thought you might be an elaborate prankster, but this essay has changed my mind on that. You've introduced a few thoughts that I might try to live by myself.

I am also suddenly realizing just how hard it is to write without making instant value judgements. I find it hard to avoid writing things like "This was terrific" and "That's silly". So that's a new lesson I am learning just now. I feel slightly childish writing like this, like somehow my writing style in this comment is less mature, but as the part of your writing that I feel is more childlike is what I like so much about it, perhaps that is a good thing.

I have a very boring office job and I am a fan of ...

2009-06-18T09:42:37.393-04:00

I have a very boring office job and I am a fan of your writing so I decided that rereading one of your posts would be a good use of my time.

Also, at the time this happened, I did not know who you were, wasn't as invested in writing creatively, hadn't read your blog or any of your work etc. So I thought it would be retroactively interesting to see what Tao Lin had to say about the situation.

Also, I am from Virginia. Dozens of people from my highschool that I probably didn't like that much anyway end up going to Virginia Tech each year. Naturally what I remember from the day of the "killing rampage" is lots of people crying about various brothers, friends, ex-boyfriends, that ended up not being dead.

I think there is a lot of "truth" in your post and I enjoyed reading it, even after the fact, I enjoyed the way it made me re-think the situation. I especially like the title of the blogpost "cho seung-hui's killing rampage" because it was not called "The Virginia Tech Massacre" which is what every single media outlet and person in Virginia referred to it as.

And I am not sure if you are familiar with this phenomenon- but after the fact every single person and their mother from Virginia, especially people from the surrounding Virginia universities made a little "tribute to the slain" by making their facebook picture (of all things) a black ribbon with the "VT" symbol in the background. Or they used the saying "we are all hokies today". I think these displays of sympathy are useless and kind of dishonest. Going to school in the same state as Virginia Tech didn't allow any of those people to experience any of the same feelings. I go to school in New York and I think I was still able to have a significant level of feeling about the event. I think your blog post is a much better tribute to the victims and to Cho Seung-hui. The fact that no one even says his name in connection with the event is awful and typical of media sensationalism and also of the way people never seem to learn to pronounce people's names, especially when they are "cold blooded murderers".

Anyway, I am really glad I went and re-read this post and I was impressed with your skill in talking about this difficult subject matter because I am, of course, not used to "reading" you in this context. I'm glad your writing exists.

This post helped me understand statements I've see...

2009-05-31T08:17:38.442-04:00

This post helped me understand statements I've seen written by you on the internet so much more.

Ever since I started reading your work and began learning more about you, I've wondered if you wrote anything dealing with the VT shooting. It wasn't until just now that I decided to search through your blog for the topic.

This also helped me "humanize" you more. It was starting to get hard for me to do that with so much online controversy and scandal following you. You were becoming very abstract to me.

hi joe.

i don't have a wii.

i typed ...

2007-06-20T01:30:00.000-04:00

hi joe.

i don't have a wii.

i typed some things about wal-mart. i don't know where. if you read what i typed about corporations somewhere that applies to wal-mart. if you find that that is some facts about wal-mart. but i don't think anything about wal-mart. i don't know.

this is inadequate response to your giant comment maybe. i don't know what else to type though.

tao

Hey, Tao.

I found your blog via Dennis Coop...

2007-06-18T05:39:00.000-04:00

Hey, Tao.

I found your blog via Dennis Cooper's blog. I'd never heard about you before today.

I live with a lot of vegans, and my older sister's boyfriend is a vegan. There was a time when I like, challenged his veganility, and tried to be a vegan, too, but I was terrible at it because I couldn't eat the fries at Wendy's without the honey mustard sauce, which had egg product in it. So I'm no good at it, but that was because I was thinking of it in total emotional terms. I was being analytical of veganism only to the extent that I felt like being, which was only far enough to criticize my sister's boyfriend's, and I never really looked back at my own critiques.

Your little debriefing on the vegan mindset was pretty interesting, and it made me realize that my sister's boyfriend, and you and some people on this blog and Jamie Stewart, all approach veganism as a moral imperative rather than a lifestyle choice, which was what I was basically seeing it as.

I think that's pretty rad that you think like that. I might start applying the concept of moral imperativity to things I want to do but am too lazy to do, like clean the house or do dishes or maybe even write more.

I haven't read anything by you yet but I told my girlfriend I'm excited to, and she's glad. Man, we had a long-ass argument about that Transformers movie that's coming out, and I'm pretty offended by the product placement contained therein, whereas she's all like, "Fuck, Joe, it's just a movie." So we had this big long silence and I was analyzing my sister's Pokemon card staxxxx and then we apologized and talked about how intense I can be with movies and music and junk.

As far as Cho goes, I think he is the perfect example of someone who I think is an asshole, and by asshole I mean somebody who I would not want to hang out with because they weren't into the same things I am and they seemed immature to me. I don't think, though, that his apparent assholiness invalidates his existence, or his art, i.e. his life. His plays reminded me of guro manga, which I'm really into, so I thought they were kind of interesting, but other than that, forgettable to me. So were Kliebold's Doom levels. They were not fun to play in when I tried to play in them, for me at least, and there were no cool monsters to shoot. Most people aren't really into those Doom levels. So, I would say that they aren't good Doom levels, just like I would say Cho's writings weren't good writings. But, most people would say "Gummo" isn't a good movie or that noise music isn't good music, so I'm buttfucking myself all over the place right now, because I love both of things a lot.

My decision is that my brain is too easily influenced, so I'm going to stand in the middle here and like, not sway towards either side of the debate, if you want to call it that. I have to place a pretty good deal of emphasis on both the logical and emotional cores of my psyche, so I can't say I agree with your philosophy, not that you yourself ever claimed to agree with it. You could've just been mulling things over in a sequence which was just as illogical as whatever else, and not really believe or disbelieve much or any of it.

I guess I think that this post's comments reminded how much I don't like Nikki Giovanni, because she is not someone I would ever want to hang out with and she is old and mean and not very smart from what I can perceive. She's an asshole, too, I think.

Hey, do you have a Wii? I have one and like, if you want to, we could trade Wii numbers and our Miis could have a parade. If you don't have a Wii and you have no idea what I'm talking about, oops. I sat in line for 16 hours at Wal-Mart for my Wii, and I didn't feel bad spending money for it. I really like the Wii, even if Wal-Mart's lighting makes me nauseous. What grudge do you carry against the Wal-Marts? I'm just curious as to why you don't like them. I mean, okay, if you're a poor family, like my family is, Wal-Mart rules because they have hella cheap prices and make our lives easier, like more sustainable and stuff. I think that's a good thing. I would presume that Wal-Mart really does help a lot of people, considering how many people it employs and how many people it feeds and how, even if you argue that sweatshops are a bad thing, usually factories are better than the domestic alternatives in third-world countries, or that's what I would be led to believe.

Tell me what's up and we can talk more about it next time I give you a comment.

A lot of what you said I feel about Jesus. To quot...

2007-05-25T13:30:00.000-04:00

A lot of what you said I feel about Jesus. To quote Marc Ribot (from his punk album): I don't have to go back 2,000 years to find somebody to feel sorry for. I'm not sad Vonnegut is dead, I'm glad his suffering is over. (He was old and he smoked cigarettes all his life.) I met Vonnegut once. He told me that America is so big it's ridiculous to believe in it as one place. He also told me a lot of evil in the world is the result of bureaucratic momentum. Then he declined to give me one of the copies of Slaughterhouse Five out of a box of many copies because they weren't his to give away. I didn't actually ask for a copy, but I appreciated the sentiment.

Really glad you responded and that you know what I...

2007-05-07T23:21:00.000-04:00

Really glad you responded and that you know what I'm talking about. I don't want to leave a long post, but I have too much to say.
A short while ago, I realized the conversations I have with most people are an act. Not that I'm telling them bullshit, but I'm pretending it isn't a tremendous effort to act in a "normal" way. Eye contact is only one example. I tell myself I must look fixedly into someone’s eyes, but not just with a blank stare.
But then my eyes might get dry from being open too long or b/c I'm nervous, and then I'll start to blink (and I have to force my blinking to be paced so it's not like I'm blinking every second), causing my eyes to produce water. this doesn't always happen, though.
Are you like me? Do you find it easier to look people in the eyes when you're listening rather than when you're talking? I can't really talk and look someone in the eyes. I'll do it for a little while then look away. Sometimes I'll look at another part of their face, but that seems strange too. Of course, if I know someone, these aren't things that I worry about as much b/c they don't expect me to act anyway except for the way I'm going to act.
Growing up, no one really said anything like, "look me in the eye when you talk to me". Sure, we knew that in the mainland that was what people did - they shook hands, looked people in the eye, and rode in taxi cabs. But I shouldn’t blame it all on culture.
Eye contact is too powerful a thing to be used just anywhere (at least I think so). It's confrontational, and not just in a bad way. It can be aggressive or it can be sexy; those are things you don't want to fuck around with. Then again, it can also be empathetic or kind, but those are powerful too.
I feel like I’ve said a lot of nothing, but maybe some of this is what you wanted to know?
Any comment?

2007-05-07T12:32:00.000-04:00

This comment has been removed by the author.

stn,

i added vertigo to the list. thank you...

2007-05-07T05:04:00.000-04:00

stn,

i added vertigo to the list. thank you for telling me.

you should type some more about eye contact, i haven't read much about it like you talked about it, with the watery eyes and the blinking, i get that too.

You write about many of the things my cousin and I...

2007-05-05T07:59:00.000-04:00

You write about many of the things my cousin and I talk about, but your thoughts are coherent, whereas my cousin and I just tell stories about how cold someone was, or poorly we saw someone being treated, and ask the other's opinion.

I like what you said about shy people. My cousin and I talk about shy people, and wonder how much of it is shy people being shy or just being "shy". Like the eye contact thing. I can do it sometimes, but I've had to practice. Mostly I find it difficult. I have to pretend that looking into their eyes and keeping my eyes from watering or blinking uncontrollably is natural to me). Where I grew up, looking people in the eye wasn't stressed (neither were hand shakes). When I first moved to DC from Hawai'i, people probably thought I was shy. They definitely thought I was conservative and were always shocked to hear me swear. Oh well.

I have more to say about your article, but saying that I liked it sums it up. Also, I work at a bookstore that has both your books. I'm not sure if the owner wants his store listed, but the store is Vertigo Books, and it’s in College Park, MD, if you want to expand your list.

i think we talked about different things. i usuall...

2007-05-01T15:20:00.000-04:00

i think we talked about different things. i usually don't stay on topic, but we agree, so it's okay.

Gene, I feel like all you said is correct.

2007-05-01T12:31:00.000-04:00

Gene, I feel like all you said is correct.

justin, you have good points.

you understa...

2007-04-30T23:53:00.000-04:00

justin, you have good points.

you understand meat without abstraction. which is, meat is the flesh of an animal you could look at and possibly communicate with, or at least share some space with and watch it breathe. it is not just protein that you put on a sandwich or eat with wasabi, it used to live like you live.

i have started eating less meat. i have killed birds. i have walked in on my dog killing my parrot. i since have come to the realization that i don't need meat to live. i don't need to be a top predator all the time just because i can. i don't need to kill and eat the parrot, because i have the ability not to.

actions and ideas are meaningless in the universe, but meaningful to me when i look around at things and make abstractions based on what i see. i like seeing trees and i like seeing birds, and i relate the tree to a table and the birds to my dead parrot. this is okay. it is okay to be attached to things and have a relationship that is not physical, but a complex abstraction based on my own experiences.

when i die, my life will mean nothing, but right now, the things i experience and how i interact with my environment are important to me and have value in my life, and that is all i really care about. i am selfish in my desire for caring about my environment, and that is okay. it makes me happy, and that's all i care about.

other people do not feel the same way, and that is fine. they will die like me.

Tao Lin -- I love the ironic & explosive way y...

2007-04-30T15:32:00.000-04:00

Tao Lin -- I love the ironic & explosive way you use "etc." That's all I wanted to say.

your post puts everyone to shame

*hangs hea...

2007-04-29T22:35:00.000-04:00

your post puts everyone to shame

*hangs head*

there's a dedicate balance between passion and intelligence

maybe not intelligence, maybe something like wide-mind, big open mind, acceptance, able to see beyond yourself, something like that

passion blinds, emotions are blinding, it's hard for people to see beyond themselves

though it's still a shame

very intelligent post I feel

*muses*

Hello, I am responding to Ellen (I think?) and Gen...

2007-04-27T02:21:00.000-04:00

Hello, I am responding to Ellen (I think?) and Gene, about killing and eating animals. Here is an example; I am living in Japan now, and a few weeks back I went to a restaurant with my friend, an Australian. I was ordering whale meat and my friend stopped me and said something like "You shouldn't eat whale meat because the Japanese are hunting whales to extinction."

I thought about this for a while and my thought process was roughly, "Whales becoming extinct feels the same as an animal from a thousand or a million years ago becoming extinct. I've never felt sad that sabre-toothed tigers no longer exist, so why should the loss of whales upset me?"

Anyway my plate of whale sashimi came out. A whale is a mammal and so its meat is more similar to a cow's than it is to fish; this is raw-steak-looking meat. The whale has obviously been killed to provide this. While looking at and eating it, I tried to visualize the existence of the whale or relate to its existence somehow, such as imagining its calves or it eating krill or what the shapes of its mind might be like. I wondered whether if a whale has goals, it can reflect on them consciously, or whether it just feels them as emotional or instinctive imperatives. But then I thought, "My life is only for a brief moment and I did not choose to exist. Therefore, why should I care if whales go extinct? Hundreds of smaller species go extinct every day, but I hear nothing about them. Why should I care whether a whale feels pain, or even if a whale's flesh is completely ripped to shreds? Am I somehow better than a whale, or a lion tearing apart a gazelle? No, I am an animal the same as them. A lion does not stop to consider a gazelle's emotions or goals as it tears it apart; all that is happening is the gazelle is dying and the lion is eating its flesh."

I know that if someone was trying to kill and eat me or my family or friends I would probably try to escape, and would feel pain and fear. But I feel like even this pain and fear, my own, is ultimately meaningless and just some kind of process or expression of the universe, like some kind of equation balancing itself out.

I feel like at the heart of a whale's mind and at the heart of my mind there is essentially nothingness, or some kind of light, on which all kinds of forms and shapes are reflected or appear; these are identity, opinions, emotions, etc. Maybe the whale perceives the reflections as distinct shapes or emotions without words or language, but it probably still has some kind of thought or emotion. But underlying all of this there is that kind of singular light or 'awareness' which is not separate from empty space.

When I was younger I used to hunt rabbits, and sometimes after shooting them they'd jump around or kick very rapidly before dying; I always thought "That rabbit is alive right now even as it is dying; it is experiencing complete immediacy. The rabbit only exists for a brief period in time and space, but now the 'awareness' of the rabbit is at a very high point...the rabbit is not separate from anything around it."

Probably I interrupted the rabbit's goals; maybe the rabbit's goal was to create more rabbits or eat lettuce or something...I don't know. My own goals are often interrupted, so I can relate to the rabbit in that.

In the room with me now is a cat; I can easily reach out and pet the cat, but if I die and the cat is hungry it might eat my flesh. If I was smaller than the cat, the cat might tear my flesh and eat me the same way it does with other animals smaller than it. When becoming 'excited' the cat has often scratched or bitten me and even when I told it to stop it did not. Therefore, I feel neither love nor hate for the cat - I understand it behaves according to its nature. I don't wish it any harm; but neither would I hesitate to kill it if I needed to.

General existence is suffering; fortunately it's only for a brief while.

you can stay, i will continue to try to use facts,...

2007-04-25T16:37:00.000-04:00

you can stay, i will continue to try to use facts, and you can do whatever you want

i just looked at statcounter and saw you came here again after you said you wouldn't

i 'caught' you

about your boyfriend's blog i mean i liked the post he did post a while ago

Fine. I'll leave.

I had stopped reading ...

2007-04-25T10:29:00.000-04:00

Fine. I'll leave.

I had stopped reading your blog because It constantly made me feel bad. And nestled into Noah's.

I think I'll quit here. There's no talking to you. And yes, you said "you should come read my blog."

I was wrong to take your advice. You're better, a little, in email anyhow. And you have a nice place here where almost everyone agrees with you. All nice ass-kissing, brown-nosing, dick sucking for points.

He barely has a blog as of late. He's working on a larger project. I don't know what you're talking about. And no. No one would ever leave me for you.

great post, tao. too much packed in there for me t...

2007-04-25T07:43:00.000-04:00

great post, tao. too much packed in there for me to respond to entirely, but in regards to how you would deal with him if you ran a workshop, your thoughts are spot on.

i also think you are on the ball when you talk about the intolerance of art. when i was reading some of the message boards where the plays were posted, i was unsettled by the comments, which as you know, ranged from "that was terrible" to "talking about how it's terrible is terrible because we're not focusing on the tragedy". i wasn't able to articulate why this was disturbing to me earlier(and still am not entirely able to) but your thoughts are well-stated here.

off-topic, but i think you met some friends of mine at the noon reading the other day -- annie dewitt and lincoln michel, from columbia?

hey tao. i read this post instead of eating dinne...

2007-04-24T23:46:00.000-04:00

hey tao. i read this post instead of eating dinner and doing my math homework. thanks for writing it.

in many ways i guess i agree with you. to me the thing that really matters about this massacre is that he managed to legally buy a gun despite being checked off as 'a danger to himself' by specialists, because of a loophole in the law. how did this loophole in the law even come to exist? i really regret the loophole.

i think i am starting to understand what you are saying by it being very hard to define whether what he did was 'good' or 'bad.' because after all maybe in 10 years a plague will hit virginia, all the other vt students will die with much more pain and suffering due to this disease. who is to know, maybe cho spared them. nevertheless i feel more sympathy toward the innocent students than i do toward cho (although i still feel some toward him). i guess because they had so much potential in their lives.

to me, i guess, each (human) life is (or should be) worth the same amount. thus, i agree with you about having to save the most # of people possible. but ethically it is really hard for me to agree still, i know logically that it's true that money should be given to the water people instead of the stem cell people, but... i empathize with all the people. i don't know, i wish we could help everyone.

about the plays: i read them, i thought they were very amateur. i can kind of see what you mean by kafka-esque and trying to be accepting, but i would not have thought of that on my own because when i read the plays i thought, 'these are super-unsubtle, they do not utilize many methods that most successful plays use, i do not find myself believing in these characters or sympathizing with them, the stories are not very engaging or realistic to me, or even very creative.' to me if i react to a piece of writing that way i think it is bad. that is the way i think.

anyway thanks for writing, you make good points as always.

"i'm curious why you want to say that you don't de...

2007-04-24T23:29:00.000-04:00

"i'm curious why you want to say that you don't defend him"

Good question. Honestly, because I don't want to think of myself as someone capable of doing what he did. I want to put myself in the "good" category. There is no such category. You are right to call me out on that. But that was the impulse behind what I said.

Still, my main reaction to all of it is feeling sympathy for him. If I were his teacher I wouldn't have had the balls to really help him. Or the tools. Introverts are hard to help because they are introverts. They need to figure out how to help themselves. Sometimes they fail.

"if you want to put them out of your classroom in other to give everyone else a safe haven, if that is how you would 'deal' with 'someone like cho' probably, yes"

When you're teaching groups, it's a kind of triage. You inevitably have to play to the status quo. This is one reason I stopped doing it. People fall through the cracks.

I have no idea what I meant by "safe haven." Maybe the safest haven for students is one where they are really challenged to deal with work that is not like their own. In which case, evicting people is not a valid option. If "safe" means everybody doing the same thing, then no one is learning.

But too, people need to feel like what they are exploring is valid. The main way teachers ostracize students is grades. I can't stand grades.

Once, I was teaching a lab section for a performance art class, and the assignment was "confessions." One student wanted to do a performance with a rifle, about his experience in the military. I told him if he brought the gun to class, I would fail him. He brought a stick instead, and used it like a gun. He was a little unhinged. His military experience was messing with his head. I'm glad he did not bring the gun for obvious reasons. But his performance stuck with me. I remember this guy, after 15 years. I think I gave him an A. I hope he is OK. I imagine he is not an artist now.

Another student did a performance about what a bad teacher I was. It was funny. It also made me feel faint. I gave him an A.

I had no business teaching. I let crazy shit happen and gave too many A's. It was probably not a safe haven.

okay, but the consequences of changing your facial...

2007-04-24T22:43:00.000-04:00

okay, but the consequences of changing your facial expressions are totally different than changing your thought process.

i used to think that i would never become a vegeta...

2007-04-24T20:27:00.000-04:00

i used to think that i would never become a vegetarian, but when i look at the actual process of killing an animal, skinning it and gutting it-- a process i have done many times-- when i look at these actions clearly and focus on them, i realize how horrible they are.

when people buy meat at a restaurant or a store, they do not see where it comes from. it is prepackaged. and because the meat is prepackaged, it comes from nowhere. meat is an abstraction until you kill it and clean it yourself.

most people do not understand this, and that is why they eat meat. most people understand that killing people is wrong, because they see it on tv and movies and society tells them repeatedly that it is wrong. it is not something they learn from experience.

i have typos in that. i am sorry.

2007-04-24T19:39:00.000-04:00

i have typos in that. i am sorry.

Comments on TAO LIN | BLOG: Cho Seung-Hui's killing rampage

i like this post

Hello, Mr. Lin. I liked this essay more than I'...

I have a very boring office job and I am a fan of ...

This post helped me understand statements I've see...

hi joe.i don't have a wii.i typed ...

Hey, Tao.I found your blog via Dennis Coop...

A lot of what you said I feel about Jesus. To quot...

Really glad you responded and that you know what I...

stn,i added vertigo to the list. thank you...

You write about many of the things my cousin and I...

i think we talked about different things. i usuall...

Gene, I feel like all you said is correct.

justin, you have good points. you understa...

Tao Lin -- I love the ironic & explosive way y...

your post puts everyone to shame*hangs hea...

Hello, I am responding to Ellen (I think?) and Gen...

you can stay, i will continue to try to use facts,...

Fine. I'll leave. I had stopped reading ...

great post, tao. too much packed in there for me t...

hey tao. i read this post instead of eating dinne...

"i'm curious why you want to say that you don't de...

okay, but the consequences of changing your facial...

i used to think that i would never become a vegeta...

i have typos in that. i am sorry.

hi joe.

i don't have a wii.

i typed ...

Hey, Tao.

I found your blog via Dennis Coop...

stn,

i added vertigo to the list. thank you...

justin, you have good points.

you understa...

your post puts everyone to shame

*hangs hea...

Fine. I'll leave.

I had stopped reading ...